Musing on MoM's Armour Spam

On the latest Muse on Minis podcast episode 122 Chad Shonkwiler, American WTC participant and Trollbloods purist, explores the concept of an almost entirely ARM 21 list. Here is the 50pt list he and the other members of the Muse Crew put together:

pMadrak or eGrissel
Bouncer
Bouncer
Mulg
Earthborn
Janissa
Max Krielstone + UA
Max Warders
Max Warders

For those of you who haven't listened to the podcast (which I recommend you do) the basic concept of the list is to present so much ARM 21 that the opponent can't chew through it all. Lots of lists have dedicated ARM crackers, but when your entire list is built of ARM 21 is one or two dedicated units/models enough? Most of the time the answer is no. Eventually they will trade their ARM cracker away and then they will be left with no answer to what you have left. Let's look at the models they have included to make the list work.

You may have noticed that their are some pretty obvious inclusions in this list: Warders, Mulg, Krielstone, Earthborn, and Janissa. They are all obviously chosen to skew towards a high ARM stat and they all do work outside just having high armour. Some have high damage output (Warders, Mulg) and others further skew the lists ARM (Earthborn and Janissa), but what does the Bouncer add to this list. Being ARM 21 is not enough, it has to provide more to keep it from being dead points. So what could this maligned beast do?

1. Shield Guard - keeps your models safe from ranged attacks, with the coming release of Eiryss3 his stock is going up
2. Brace for Impact - reduces the slam distance by 3 inches, if slammed 0 inches it does not become knocked down, and collateral damage does not knock this model down. Great for scenario at ARM 21 and hard to slam out of zones it will stick around a lot longer then your enemy will want
3. Chain Weapon - ignores ARM provided by shields and the shield wall order, it's situationally good, but I see a lot of Iron Fangs in my meta and love this trait
4. Bump - pushes away the first model to make a melee attack against a model with Bump cast on it, while it can be played around it does make it more difficult to plan a turn around killing an ARM 21 list
5. Reach - always nice to have and on a POW 13 boostable attack it's not bad

The Bouncer is a scenario piece. It will sit on an objective or in a zone and the enemy is going to have to over commit to remove this 5 point model. This is good news for us since it will mean they aren't killing our business pieces. 

You will notice that the list has two casters, pMadrak and eGrissel. During their discussion these are the two warlocks that Chad and the Muse Crew were considering for leading this list. 

• pMadrak has carnage a spell increasing the MAT of models in pMadrak's control area by 2. Along with his feat which gives Overtake and additional attacks for killing a model, to models in his control area pMadrak allows this very tough list to chew through infantry. He also solves the problem with high defense models, but also fixes the Bouncer's MAT 5.
• eGrissel can use her feat to give models in her control area Hyper Aggressive, when a model takes damage it advances directly towards the model that made the attack, and Unyielding, and additional 2 ARM while in melee. She also has the spell Dash, which gives models in her control area plus 1 SPD and ignore free strikes. She allows the list to get up the board and properly contesting scenario, she also further skews the list's ARM stat with her feat.

Between these two casters we see two different approaches to what this list wants to do. pMadrak fixes its MAT problem, and can crush infantry spam lists. eGrissel plays to scenario by getting models in zones and making it very difficult for the enemy to score and prevent her army from scoring. Both these strategies look like they'd would be very effective on the table and I'm keen to try them out. However when I was listening to the podcast I couldn't help, but feel they were missing another option for amongst our warlocks. That warlock would be pGrim.

I think pGrim would be an excellent warlock to lead this ARM 21 monstrosity. pGrim helps the list in very similar ways that both pMadrak and eGrissel do separately. His feat decreases the DEF and SPD of enemy models by 3 and prevents them from making special attacks. This helps his army hit enemy models, and rather then speeding his army up, he hinders the enemy army from moving as far forward. This allows him to draw the line of engagement closer to the enemy's side of the board and even keep them from getting in the zone. His spells are pretty toolbox allowing his army to ignore forests (cross-country), from moving as they please (lock the target), and outside feat help his models hit as well as stop stealth and incorporeal (marked for death). He even has the tools to deal with a match up Chad points out as being a weakness for this list, pDenny. For a pDenny (pDeneghra) match up the list does need a few tweaks.

pGrim

Bouncer

Bouncer

Mulg

War Wagon

Thrullg

Sorcerer/Gobber Tinkerer

Max Krielstone + UA

Max Warders

Max Warders

So you as you can see I've ditched the Earthborn and Janissa package in place of a War Wagon, Thrullg, and either a Sorcerer or Gobber Tinkerer. The reason for this is in this list I don't think that the extra 2 ARM is needed, it's nice, but not necessary. The wall and the other utilities that the Earthborn's animus provides will be missed, but I think that pGrim can work using his own toolbox. The purpose of the War Wagon is that it provides another gun to the list, still remains an ARM 21 model, and a huge base to hide Grim behind. The Thrullg is often ignored, because he's a poor man's Eiryss, but I think in this list he has a place. He hides behind the lines and will be used to knock off any enemy upkeeps, with such high armour we also don't need to worry about him killing or damaging anything. It does have some other shenanigans, but I don't think he'll be used for those very often. The Sorcerer and the Gobber Tinkerer are both good options for the list. The Sorcerer is another form of debuff management, but is less effective then the Thrullg. He does have some late game potential, but mostly would be brought to deal with debuffs. The Gobber Tinkerer is another one point filler, but can help keep the War Wagon up and running. At 22 boxes and ARM 21 it may survive a committed attack, and the Gobber Tinkerer can be there to help keep it on its feet. The one point option is really about personal preference, and I can see Swamp Gobbers or a Feralgeist as good alternatives.

In the occurrence of a pDenny match up I think pGrim has a game, at least better then most lists. It is still uphill, but I feel pGrim has more options against pDenny then most. With his 13" POW 13 magical gun, a -3 DEF feat, and Marked For Death, Grim is a threat and makes his army one too. With the aid of Thrullg and a Sorcerer he has some way to deal with Denny's debuffs. Grim and his army also answers a lot of the different units Denny likes to bring, pirates, Nyss Hunters, Croes Cutthroats, and Banes. The War Wagon's gun can be used to clear a lot of that high DEF low ARM infantry and if it gets lucky even knock some down, Grim's feat really helps with hitting as well. With line breaker on a huge base the War Wagon can also clear infantry in melee pretty well, it sounds nicer then then it normally is, but the option is available. Also being able to charge, impact attack, shoot a 5" AOE, and an spray 8" all on one turn can be pretty devastating, especially on feat turn. The War Wagon also is unaffected by Croe's poison, so that can be situationally handy, it also means if Croes are in the list it won't necessarily die in one turn. Everything also being ARM 21 remains to be a pain, especially after feat turn when only a few can actually suffer debuffs. pDenny is still definitely a threat, but I feel pGrim still has some good answers.

I am really keen to try this list in both iterations and with all three casters, but I do feel pGrim really provides more for the list then either eGrissel or pMadrak. Chad's idea really caught my imagination and I can't thank him and the Muse Crew enough for all the stuff they do for the online community. I can only hope that his idea can reach other troll players, and inspire them as much as it did me.

Thanks for reading,

Crash West

Any questions or comments you can reach me here

Bouncer takes one over Mortenebra.

With the MKII rules almost becoming final, I remain a bit underwhemled by most the Trollblood lights.  PS13 just seems a little wimpy.  But I digress, played a 35 point game last night against Mortenebra and who was the shining game winner... The Bouncer.  At Dice minus 5 for Damage and needing to roll 11s to hit the old boy came through with a couple of face smashing blows to her face winning the game for me.  I have to say this about him.  Its the first time he has EVER killed anything for me ever!  Granted I have only brought him a handful of times, but most often he gets in the way and softens stuff up before he dies horribly.

Sevwall's Fieldtest Thoughts: Warbeasts

My thoughts on each model as it is now in MKII, with potential Feedback possibilities if the model fails to live up to my expectations. I will try to evaluate all models as if it were the only rules they ever had, unless I am suggesting feedback, in which case I reserve the right to draw on old rules. I will revisit this later on.

Models I have not played with are left blank

Models rated 1 to 5.
1 = Total Junk
2 = Underpowered
3 = Balanced
4 = Overpowered
5 = Broken

Mauler – 3
Perfect. Expensive, but with a killer animus and capable of trashing most heavies in a turn, especially if he gets his own animus thrown on him. Great stats. Good chain attack. Pretty close to perfect, ina balanced way

Possible Feedback: None

Blizter – 3
Another model that I feel is fine. I will say that I think its high time they standardized all of our heavies at 5 fury, but I would really hate it if his points increased, so I’m fine with 4. The ability to charge and boost is extremely good, especially since instead of riling he can just boost shots at people and hope for a hit. And if he hits, a boosted 13 can really put some hurting on, well, anything. Two handed throwing a model (maybe your own) followed up by a boosted 13’s and 0-2 additional unboosted 13’s is a pretty cool and efficient way to end a game. Again, he suffers for his cool ranged junk with reduced, but still effective, melee potential.

Potential Feedback: Make his animus push people 3”, to standardize it with ‘bump’ and affect people with reach. That, or make it cost 1.

Eathrborn – 3
We have some pretty balanced heavies. At the cost of 1 point, he trades the reliability of the Mauler’s animus for the ability to steal the POW of opponents weapons. This will easily get him to P+S 17 or higher against most heavies, so unbuffed he exceeds the Mauler, minus the chain attack. He is also a pathfinder, and has a great animus, which he gets inbuilt. He is incredibly versatile, and well worth the extra point over the mauler while being a completely different type of model. A wonderful way to create diversity in a faction

Possible Feedback: None.

Mulg – 3 (Flawed)
Mulg is an interesting model. He has the distinction of being one of the few models almost guaranteed to kill [I]anything[/I] in his melee range, almost more so than a buffed Mauler. Reach is incredible, as is his MAT and the P+S on his weapons. The main problem comes with his SPD, which is very slow at 4, and AYGTET (Are You Going To Eat That) makes up for it in a way that is quite possibly broken. You see, AYGTET is a nifty cornercase thing, and its hard to trigger it yourself because tough will screw you up a decent amount of the time. In come the whelps. With poor DEF and no tough, they easily trigger AYGTET. So, Mulg moves 4”, and starts charging around corners 16”, which is a problem.

So remove it, and give him snacking, right? Well, no, because then he is lackluster. Sure, he kills things, but he costs a ton, isn’t too much more survivable than a Mauler, and has an animus that is possibly the worst in the game.

So he is a 3, because overall he is both underpowered and overpowered, like two huge weights on a balance beam, and as such sort of balances out. But he could be tweaked to be a balanced model

Possible Feedback: Remove AYGTET for snacking. Increase SPD by 1. Change Runebreaker animus to be a 3” ‘disenchant’ that causes Enemy Animi and Enemy Upkeeps within 3” of the caster of the animus to immediately expire. He gets a bit better overall, gets a real animus that is worth paying heavy points for, and loses the insane threat range while still retaining a threat advantage over normal trolls.

Axer – 4
Okay, reach thresher on a MAT 6 beast with POW 15 is a touch over the top. Just a tiny, tiny touch. The real problem is Befuddle, because in combination with an Axer, you can arrange units in semicircles and get an axer a backstrike thresher at MAT 8 ignoring shieldwall. Pop the feat and you cannot miss DEF 14 or less with this tactic. Add a Mauler animus and there is hardly a unit you will not completely remove from the table.

But enough about that. The axer by himself is almost fine. Its not the beast so much as the animus that really puts him into ‘always take’ territory. But that’s just because it’s an animus that fits us so well, its not really a broken animus. So he is fine. Mostly. Boy this one rambled.

Possible Feedback: Reduce POW of the axe by 1. He is less effective at killing heavies, but not much else.

Bouncer – 3
Its funny. He hasn’t done much in my games, but his reassuring presence makes me fear range much less. Personally, I’ve stopped taking him so much, because I’ve been facing more melee lists that ranged lists. But in a tournament I might take one to help guard my caster. Bump is a slightly underpowered animus because most opponents can position around it, but its acceptable. He hits well enough for a light. Another all around good beast.

Possible Feedback: Increase POW of shield by 1. Tiny tweak to make him a bit more palatable.

Pyre – 3
Well, I’m less happy giving this guy a 3, but his animus is okay, he automatically sets people on fire in melee and at range, and he hits well enough in melee, especially if you buff him. Solid. Just Solid.

Possible Feedback: +1 RAT. I see no reason why it would overpower him, and since these beasts are supposed to be at the least all arounders, an incredibly low RAT is very painful. You will get used to this feedback.

Slag- 2
Possible Feedback: +1 RAT. I see no reason why it would overpower him, and since these beasts are supposed to be at the least all arounders, an incredibly low RAT is very painful. He is also not quite as nice as an Axer. The extra STR does not do much for him over his cheaper bretheren. That said, his animus is the same as the Pyre, so if you are expecting heavier targets, take him, and if not, take the Pyre.

Possible Feedback: +1 RAT, +1 ARM. If he is going to be a 6, lets make sure he earns it.

Winter – 2
Again, lackluster. Not bad, just meh. Really, for a ranged beast, this guy really has trouble hitting broads and barns and whatnot. The inbuilt stationary effect is quite good at preventing jacks, beasts and casters from targeting the Winter troll. Luckily for them, his bad DEF and ARM make it easy to whittle him down at range enough that a single charge attack will waste him. He just needs a little tweek to be okay.

Possible Feedback: +1 RAT, -1 point. I see no reason why it would overpower him, and since these beasts are supposed to be at the least all arounders, an incredibly low RAT is very painful. Why is this guy 6 when the winter is 5? Is auto-stationary really all that much better than auto-fire? One kills infantry, one stops models. Seems almost a wash for me, especially after playing him a few times. He drops just as fast as a Pyre. He should cost the same amount.

The Animus Conundrum – 2
So, the Slag and the Pyre have the same damn animus. The difference between crit fire and crit corrosion is so unnoticeable and meaningless that is only bears mentioning so that I can summarily dismiss it.

I get two beasts with the same animus. Both the Brute and the Protector have Safeguard. But they are in different factions. In a game where animus are important and influence what beasts you take (See: Axer) having two similar beasts (all arounders) with the same animus is so very strange. Why exactly would you take the Pyre and the Slag in the same list? If you do, why should you be punished for it by being deprived of another animus? If the animus is so critical that you double up, you damn well double up, or take Bone Grinders so that you have a backup.

One of them needs to lose the animus. Ironically enough, I think Acidic Touch works better on the Slag than Flaming fists work on the Pyre. So I’m thinking the Pyre should lose his animus for something else,

What should it be? Well, I’m not lucky enough to be a designer (yet… hire me!) so its not really in my prevue to create an entire new animus. But if the Slag is anti-heavy, and so is his animus, then it makes sense to give the Pyre an anti-troop animus. I like the idea of giving “It Burns” out as an animus. But again, I am not a designer.

Tommorrow…. Maybe nothing! But maybe Units.